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Transport chiefs consider cash boost to maintain bus services



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Published Date: 09 July 2008
CITY leaders are considering pumping extra money into Lothian Buses in a bid to save some of its under-threat services.
The council-backed bus firm is looking to axe a number of its loss-making routes in the face of spiralling fuel costs and dipping passenger numbers.

But the Evening News understands that council chiefs are considering boosting the subsidies it gives to Lothian Buses or not accepting any dividend it is due to collect from the bus firm.

Lothian Buses is due to report its full accounts in the next few weeks and its dividend payment to the city council has been around £2 million in the last few years.

The rising price of diesel, a wider economic slowdown and tram roadworks have severely dented passenger numbers and profit levels at the bus firm over the last six months.

In March, Lothian Buses revealed it was facing a £4m shortfall because of increases in tax and fuel costs, as well as a Scottish Government freeze on a rebate to transport operators used to cover rises in fuel duty.

Dave Anderson, the council's director of city development, said: "The council already provides subsidies to Lothian Buses for services that are not financially viable. However, as a commercial company it is their decision on whether to continue with these services or not. We will continue to work with Lothian Buses to look at viable service options."

But campaigners urged city leaders to intervene as many passengers don't have any alternative ways of getting around the city.

Tina Woolnough, chairwoman of Blackhall Community Association, which led a recent campaign to save the number 13 service from Blackhall to Lochend, said: "Hopefully it is just a short-term problem as it would be a waste of public money to stop and start these subsidised services, particularly when many of them are just getting going and building up their numbers.

"I would hope the council does support Lothian Buses at this difficult time because it is a valuable public service they provide.

"There is no getting away from the fact that much of the trouble facing Lothian Buses is down to the tram roadworks.

"If the council can help out struggling businesses along Leith Walk then they need to look at helping Lothian Buses. It is the same principle."

Favourites for the axe are services which rely on both council subsidies and support from the more profitable routes.

Gavin Booth, chairman of passenger watchdog Bus Users UK, said: "We are obviously concerned about any potential cuts to services because often the passengers affected have no other choice other than to take the bus.

"The council may decide to intervene in some way and I would hope they will look at the social need of any services under threat.

"We are in a catch-22 here, where drivers are beginning to feel the difference in terms of increased fuel bills but they will not look to alternatives such as the bus if services are being cut."

Passengers made a record 114 million trips on Lothian Buses last year, the ninth year in a row the firm has seen passenger numbers rise.

www.lothianbuses.com


The full article contains 540 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

allknowing,

09/07/2008 12:06:43
If it doesnt pay its way, chop it. The council isnt a charity, and i dont want my council tax spent on subsidising poor people to travel from the council house they got cheap on me, to get the dole cheque paid for me!!!
2

Foo,

ejinbara 09/07/2008 12:21:04
FFS not again. Cue 150 comments of 'well informed' 'experts' balling about how they KNOW the trams are the root of all evil, TIE are staffed by actual demons and that the trams will turn Edinburgh into a ghost town.

3

Unimpressed one,

09/07/2008 12:21:55
#1, Oh you poor b*gger having personally to pay for the great unwashed over and above your tax and NI deductions.
4

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 12:22:16
Hi Sarah.
5

antifa,

09/07/2008 12:23:24
That was almost literate number 1, well done. Add in the odd apostrophe and we might be getting somewhere.
6

DAVID,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 12:24:41
No to extra subsisidies from the public purse.

And why do we continually insist on pumping money into the disgusting, polluting, noisy, smelly buses? can we really not envisage greener forms of mass transit instead of buses, and I don't mean trams. Other big cities do it, but not the communist tax and spend idiots running Edinburgh.

7

allknowing,

09/07/2008 12:26:42
#Afternoon to you too. Any points to made today, or just the OCD you have over spelling?
8

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 12:33:18
#6 DAVID,Edinburgh

"Can we really not envisage greener forms of mass transit instead of buses, and I don't mean trams. Other big cities do it"

David, other than buses and trams, please tell us just what else they use which is 'greener' to operate?

"Communist tax and spend idiots running Edinburgh."

The current Council is SNP/Lib Dem controlled, obviously they are not perfect, but they certainly aren't communists.

9

I love to eat Sellotape,

09/07/2008 12:41:46
Paint the buses a different colour. That could make them greener.
10

ST170,

09/07/2008 12:42:43
#1 couldnt agree with you more! This country stinks.
11

Mikey,

09/07/2008 12:47:50
Then leave! Goodbye!!
12

snotter,

09/07/2008 12:51:27
nobody ever mentions trolley busses.

They have all the benefits the same as trams,
but they dont involve digging anything up.
(still have messy overhead wires though)
So they are a fraction of the cost.

Newcastle used to have them, and many european Cities are installing them.

http://members.aol.com/trolleybusscene/index.htm
13

Lennox,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 12:51:36
#1 Using a bus does not make you poor, unemployed or living in a council flat/ house. As a working person, who owns their own flat and does not claim any benefits, I did not realise I was not allowed to use the bus. I will immediately stop using this valuable service and start using a car to pollute the world and clog up the streets of Edinburgh even more. I might even go the whole hog and get a chelsea tractor!
14

DAVID,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 12:53:05
To #8 - how about electric or zero emission buses such as those used in New York?

I know they're not branded as communists, but with such nonsense ideas they're not much better. Using taxpayer funds to pay for loss making services? Not a great idea, is it?

The council should divorce themselves from this bus company pronto so we can have better regulation of this service and real focus on customers and not the cooncil.
15

gggrumpy,

09/07/2008 12:54:02
LRT could save a fortune by axing the empty orange mini-bus service from Edinburgh Airport.
16

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 12:56:46
Hi, Mario (4).

Can I make a helpful suggestion? What don't you just think up one post on this piece today which will encapsulate all your vitriol and frustration and then leave it at that? It would save such a lot of your time.

17

Martin 2,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 13:04:11
I thought the prices just went up to £1.10 to cover the extra fuel costs - can they use the same excuse again to cut services?

Lothian Buses have been praising the Tram scheme over the last few months as well -a convenient change of heart when it impacts on them....
18

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 13:08:01
It would Sarah but I can multitask. Thanks for thinking of me though.

I agree , make some of the buses green and leave some the funny rusty hearts colour.
19

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 13:09:34
It never ceases to amaze me that people complain about bus services being cut due to under-use. Simple solution. Use the bloomin' things and they won't be cut! Why some services continue to be run when next to nobody bothers to use them is somewhat of a mystery to me. For example, the night buses. At weekends, they are fairly well used. But during the week most are running around practically empty. When ever I've got the N16 or N11 during the week, I've been either the only person on the thing or one of about 3 or 4 passengers. All the way from town to Greenbank. And why run double deckers on these services and shut off the top deck?! Why not just use single deckers? Surely they'd cost less to run, no?
20

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 13:12:09
#14 DAVID,Edinburgh

I must admit that I had forgotten about electric or zero emission buses, etc. The argument against electric buses is (I believe) that a lot of pollution is produced to generate the electricity for charging their batteries/accumulators. They also only have a very limited range while zero emmission vehicles are both expensive to produce and run and may not be quite so emission-free as was at first thought.

I agree with you though, we need to look for sources of power/energy over and above oil/petroleum (personally I would go for large scale investment in nuclear power).

"Using taxpayer funds to pay for loss making services"

Personally I hold that this crazy tram system is potentially a huge waste of public funds, EU investment, etc. and will end in failure, but only time can tell.

Obviously the existing bus service is going to have to be subsidised in the hope (presumably) that if the fuel crisis ever ends any profits from Lothian Buses can be pumped into the loss making trams.

21

sceptic,

09/07/2008 13:20:30
13 Lennox, Edinburgh
Is it right that I who cannot afford a 4x4 or a flat should be subsidising your travel to your obviously well paid job?
22

Shave,

09/07/2008 13:24:47
#5 DAVID - "why do we continually insist on pumping money into the disgusting, polluting, noisy, smelly buses?"

From the article - "its dividend payment to the city council has been around £2 million in the last few years."
23

geekpie,

forfar 09/07/2008 13:27:58
A bus service that needs a subsidy now might not need a subsidy in 2 years time. Circumstances change and customer bases build.

Pump in the extra money and if there's a shortfall the council should introduce a small charge for parking at retail centres and out of town supermarkets.
24

Foo,

ejinbara 09/07/2008 13:28:12
#18

Konnichiwa! The Genuine Mario Antoinette ga aru ne. Taishita otoko da. Erai zo.

In summary I agree with you mario.
25

KTCB41,

09/07/2008 13:31:59
Lothian buses seemed to me to be quite public about their support for the tram works and wern't too bothered about the disruption to other businesses. Now that their bottom line is being impacted it seems to be a new tune we're hearing.

Like all those other businesse Lothian Buses should apply for a rebate on their Non-Domestic rates, but get no more than that.

The issue is not wiill the trams be good or bad but about the equity of treatment of businesses that may be being impacted during the badly managed construction phase.

Perhhaps if TIE did their work in a more focused way they could cause a lot less disruption. Rather than having cause so much disruption over the central an north Edinburgh road network all at once.
26

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 13:42:18
If you have a look on the leith traders website, you will see that there are some shopowners who are actually very happy in their dealings with TIE.

Not that that would make the news of course.


http://leithtraders.com/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=2&Itemid=3
27

ValdasTheMan,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 13:43:08
#3 We pay for Glasgow buses as well?
28

Bob 2,

09/07/2008 13:45:09
peter no 8

those " rick shaw" type push bikes.

Now there's an idea, ons single deckers,install pedals at every seat and every passenger gets fit on the way home.


Follow on from comment 25, Lothian Buses weren't that long ago telling us that services were running as normal.

The TRAM works are finally hitting home, with people abandoning The Bus, who would want to travel on buses with journeys getting diverted and journey times making journeys 20/30 mins longer than normal.

Remember we've got another 3 years before the trams run, so tings will get worse.

Wait until the Tram works start on Princes Street and York Place.
29

I love to eat Sellotape,

09/07/2008 13:50:23
Tings will get worse? I tought tat tey would improve.
30

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 13:53:27
Ting Ting !

and off we go. Next Stop Edinburgh Zoo for the Lions and Tigers and Bears.
31

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 09/07/2008 14:01:07
Forward from Scotland's past! When we were famous for making things. The tram line is a little feature to signalise that we're moving into the 21st century. Of course it's been funded and organised in the very worst of 20th century unionist disfunctional economic no way of thinking. Where we've had to borrow money from private bankers to create a national asset. Whereas a Scottish treasury could issue the credit (money) to pay skilled people and schedule the work. This way we'd get a tram network free of debt and interest charges.
32

Dileas,

09/07/2008 14:06:50
SO where does the tramline go now? It's business case relied on the buses to make it viable, because the buses were able to subsidise it by the £3 million profit they made.
Now the trams will have to make ends meet themselves (something that no other tram line has been able to do recently) and the buses, powered by increasingly expensive diesel, will look to the trams for a subsidy, even though the bus companies are refunded the fuel duty!

Is any part of Edinburgh's public transport viable now?

Don't throw your car away yet!
33

CBJ,

09/07/2008 14:08:45
Council clowns needs more education on public transportation, if they could spend 10% on Lothian buses of what has been spending on trams ..I bet they will be world-class.
34

I love to eat Sellotape,

09/07/2008 14:09:02
How do you "throw away" a car?
35

an interested party,

09/07/2008 14:17:52
the green lobby could impress us all by getting on there high horse and using that to commute with
36

Hearts Daft,

Tynecastle 09/07/2008 14:23:00
Who writes this garbage. Pargraph 2 states;'dipping passenger numbers'. Whilst the last pargraph states; 'Passengers made a record 114 million trips on Lothian Buses last year, the ninth year in a row the firm has seen passenger numbers rise'. What is it to be Mr Picken.

37

Dileas,

09/07/2008 14:27:21
Love (34) - you fail to be able to sell it because of Brown's plans to increase VED on all cars made since 2001, which are already making older cars unsaleable. You then scrap it, which can even involve paying the scrappie to remove it. That is throwing away a car that could still be used and may be needed is the bus service deteriorates.

Cars may be more viable than Edinburgh's public transport!
38

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 14:45:20
Moan . Whinge . Greet. Cry into Booze.

repeat.
39

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

09/07/2008 14:50:20
Good spot, 36.

Fancy a career as a journalist?
40

The Judge,

09/07/2008 15:13:10
The council-backed bus firm is looking to axe a number of its loss-making routes in the face of spiralling fuel costs and dipping passenger numbers.

Lies, passenger numbers have never been higher and the cost of fuel will fall significantly in the next few months.

This is just an excuse by LRT because they know as soon as they take over the running of the tramLINE all services will be cut to help subsidise the all mighty tramLINE to nowhere.

Just imagine what kind of buses we could have and what a fantastic service they could provide with an investment £600m. Instead the city are going to blow it all on an unwanted tramLINE. The funniest thing is we're going to stand by and let them do it.

41

I love to eat Sellotape,

09/07/2008 15:29:48
Well, I'm not. Tonight, I'm going to go down there and stop them doing it.
42

I love to eat Sellotape,

09/07/2008 15:30:03
I'm not going to stand idly by, ho-ho, no sir, not me.
43

,

09/07/2008 15:31:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

,

09/07/2008 15:35:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 09/07/2008 15:49:04
Which would be the loss making services?
Does the bus company pay for that awful " Metro " rag which litters our buses ? If so , stop it I say .
And get rid of those awful single deckers on routes like the 22 . Are these buses safe ? Try and fight your way off one if it's full .
46

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 15:52:29
45 i assume you have internet access. Why dont you find out who produces the Metro before you come out with such nonsense ?

Would it suprise you to learn its actually a major publisher and it isnt only produced in Edinburgh but the model for it has been copied all over the world ?
47

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 16:02:35
#46 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

You don't mean to tell us that the 'Metro' is published by the 'Sun'?

I wish I could copy the models on page 3.
48

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/07/2008 16:08:51
Actually its worse than that, they do the daily mail.
49

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 16:12:09
#19
Particular buses are reserved for use on specific routines (ie. the No.10 has the funny chime bell, the No.44 has the "Sparkling buses" advert).
If LTR were to do as you say, they would need twice as many buses for each route as they do now - the single-deckers for the quite times, and the double-deckers for the busy times.

On the routes that go through the city centre, the bus will be fully loaded by the time they reach Princes Street, but empty by the time they reach the last stop at each end of the route.

I don't understand why the top deck is locked off - maybe it is damaged in some way. I believe bus drivers get paid according to the size of the vehicle.
50

Stevie Mac,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 16:34:01
Nobody ever mentions trolley buses
51

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 09/07/2008 16:40:57
46 , what relevance is that - it is just dumbed-down carp for folk with a limited attention span .
And why is there more and more of this rubbish such as " short list " " Edinburgh Record " ?? It these things had a price nobody would buy them .
52

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 16:52:20
#51

In the same way that people don't pay or subscribe to the EEN to read the drivel posted on these boards??

53

Issy,

East Lothian 09/07/2008 17:01:04
Not surprised - Lothian Buses are not well run and too busy trying to compete with First Bus.
I realise this keeps fares down but at what cost!
Buses run near empty a lot of the time, polluting our air and causing noise pollution too. Residential streets are no place for buses and what is wrong with walking to a main bus route! Most of us need the exercise!!!
54

rs,

in ma house 09/07/2008 17:33:59
49 Mr Fuzzy,

READ THE COMMENT, Number 19 is referring to the NIGHT BUSES during the week.

It was a sensible suggestion, rather than running 86 seat double deckers AT NIGHT, Captainofedinburgh WAS Sensiblly suggestiing running 40 seat single decked buses.

53 Issy, East Lothian - Presumably you are one of those CAR COMMUTERS who come down the A1 in a 80% EMPTY car (1 driver)for the WHOLE Journey , while a bus may have carried 150 passengers over the same journey
55

rs,

in ma house 09/07/2008 17:36:31
can anyone explain why the trams will need susidised given that there is initial NO CAPITAL outlay to pay for, the trams and line are all being PAID for by the Scottish Taxpayer.

With 250 crammed into every tram and the monopoly that is being created , they should be raking in the money from the punters?
56

rs,

in ma house 09/07/2008 17:38:18
andrewS - comment 43

so why is £513m of taxpayers money being spent building a tramline between Ocean Terminal and the Gyle?

Better not tell TIE.
57

rs,

in ma house 09/07/2008 17:40:33
36 Hearts Daft,Tynecastle 09/07/2008 14:23:00

Who writes this garbage. Pargraph 2 states;'dipping passenger numbers'. Whilst the last pargraph states; 'Passengers made a record 114 million trips on Lothian Buses last year, the ninth year in a row the firm has seen passenger numbers rise'. What is it to be Mr Picken.

READ THE article 'Passengers made a record 114 million trips on Lothian Buses last year.. Hint LAST YEAR,

given the scale of the TRAMWORKS and Road Works in Edinburgh, it no wonder people have stopped using the bus.
58

Ed Park,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 18:23:28
If Lothian Buses made the X47 peak hours only, they would save a fortune! It runs virtually empty the rest of the day.
59

Plantagenet,

09/07/2008 19:43:32
Cut the number of buses on the 22 bus service? you must be joking? have you tried to get on one at Lothian Road going to the Gyle in the morning peak time? The passengers are packed in like sardines and god only knows how long the people at other stops along the way have to wait to get on a bus. The same applies around 5pm when trying to get back to town from South Gyle when packed buses fly by you. I say make the no 22 fleet all double deckers to allow for the huge numbers of people employed out there. Perhaps cut backs could be applied in the quieter periods during the day.
60

Plantagenet,

09/07/2008 19:45:24
43. oops forgot to post your number . . . .Cut the number of buses on the 22 bus service? you must be joking? have you tried to get on one at Lothian Road going to the Gyle in the morning peak time? The passengers are packed in like sardines and god only knows how long the people at other stops along the way have to wait to get on a bus. The same applies around 5pm when trying to get back to town from South Gyle when packed buses fly by you. I say make the no 22 fleet all double deckers to allow for the huge numbers of people employed out there. Perhaps cut backs could be applied in the quieter periods during the day.
61

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

09/07/2008 19:59:43
Get stuck into a good book when travelling, it takes the mind of tram works & fare prices. I recommend Dr Jeykll & Mr Hyde - I've read it twice
62

Andrew,

09/07/2008 20:13:03
60! Agreed! Roll on the trams!!!
63

Bertie The Bat,

10/07/2008 07:21:49
Let the train take the strain
64

vorlic,

edinburgh 10/07/2008 10:40:15
is this just not a ploy by LB to cut services now as they are involved in the tram set up.
65

craig7653,

Port Seton. 11/07/2008 07:57:14
Seton Sands to Clerwood £1.10 Fantastic bargain. I travelled on a bus in Wakefield, West Yorkshire last week. £1.90 togo 1.5 miles. Stop Moaning.
66

Pond Hall,

on a bus to Wallyford 15/07/2008 13:09:49
even better value (using a city single) you can travel from Pencaitland to Balerno for £1, which works out at 4p a miles, try that in a Car

And you even get to go through Wallyford on the way
67

Bob 2,

15/07/2008 13:15:02
comment 60 + 62
funny enough the other day a double deck was on the 22 route.

and what difference will the trams make, 15min service is quoted, given that a tram will have 170 standing passengers, it could just be like the 22.

Maybe the Tram conductor will be pushing the passengers in like sardines !!

 

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Would the council be right to consider raising bus fares to finance a tram extension?
Yes, it’s worth stumping up for this step forward
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