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Forget the stats: we're not thugs



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Published Date: 16 April 2008
IT'S official . . . Glasgow is more violent than New York. Who says? A report from the Reform Scotland think-tank that assembles the statistics regarding the numbers of violent attacks over the past year. According to Reform's figures, last year saw 731 violent attacks per thousand Glaswegians as compared to New York's 631. Am I shocked, surprised, ashamed that a Scottish city finds itself, statistically-speaking, described in the same fearful terms as New York? Well, no.
If Glasgow is as frighteningly violent as this report claims, and if Edinburgh isn't all that different from Glasgow, statistically-speaking, then how do we explain the real-life experience, not statistical calculation, of the American students who y
ear-on-year work as interns in Holyrood? These young Americans have told me how much safer they feel in our smaller, friendlier, version of the great cities many of them call home, and in which there might be de facto no-go areas for police and other groups.

I just don't believe any Scottish city compares with the lawlessness of the gang culture, ethnic ghettoes and organised crime networks in a number of American cities. The incident that shocked Scotland, a child killed by the criminally-careless discharge of an airgun, would have merited scarcely a mention on the local TV station's news bulletin had it happened in New York, Chicago or other big cities.

Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill has been pulling out all the stops to persuade Westminster to ban such guns. On the other side of the Atlantic, the National Rifle Association has been reminding its fellow Americans, and the candidates for the White House, of the constitutional right of every American to bear arms.

That's not to say behaviour in some parts of Glasgow after some residents have tanked up and tooled up is as responsible and disciplined as we'd like. But nor is it to say the Dear Green Place has gone to Hell in a handbasket over the last decade, as the Reform report's statistics are designed to show. It's doubtful if the second city of the Empire, as was, ever attained the gentility of English cities like Bath or even York. There's no doubt that for the last six decades at least, Glasgow has been a violent city . . . even before Frankie Vaughn, the crooner who tried to rid Glasgow of its gangs by visiting Easterhouse, getting down and dirty with the knife-carriers and setting in train the first "social inclusion initiative".

And guess what? In exhibiting the social traits Weegies and other Scots do to a greater or lesser degree, and that we all wish we didn't, we're not alone . . . our Celtic cousins in the Republic of Ireland are currently beating themselves up as we do. In a survey published in Ireland's Sunday Independent, the breast-beating harmonised with our own admissions of guilt about being Europe's worst boozers, fattest and least-fit adults and children, most prolific pill-poppers and puffers of any mind-altering substances we can lay our hands on. The citizens of the republic, statistically-speaking, are scared to leave their homes at night because of the fear engendered by loud groups of "young people" or gangs, hanging around, tanked up and ready to go, or just standing around, being young . . . in much the same way my pals and I used to do.

Shouldn't we therefore question the assumptions about our national scumminess and lack of community and personal discipline? If the Irish are grappling with the same selfish and antisocial behaviour as the Scots observe in their young people, does that not suggest that we're not as singularly debauched and drunk, violent and threatening as we've come to believe? If we're not all that different from Ireland, for example, when we look at real-life and not statistics, maybe we're not all doomed?

Not fit for purpose
NOW that the Holyrood government has dumped the phoney target of two hours' PE per week, per pupil, it has the chance to get real and admit that the present curriculum doesn't produce enough time and our higher education system doesn't produce enough qualified PE teachers.

I've written to the current crop of education ministers pressing for the same PE provision I suggested to the last lot, without success. Until we have the required number of teachers, the objective should be to have every pupil undertake some form of daily physical activity, for fifteen minutes, if that's all that's possible, and, on a weekly basis, two or three classes taught by a specialist teacher. I've also resurrected the idea of having health, nutrition, sexual health taught along with PE. For that we'll need more health education and nutrition specialists, and may require to modify traditional home economics teacher training.

Revolting students
TO date, my office in parliament has received well over 2000 e-mails from students complaining that local councils plan to limit the number of properties in multiple occupancy in areas chosen by them . . . presumably because owner-occupiers or tenants complain to the councils that their part of Marchmont or Morningside, for example, is having its character changed by the spread of HMOs.

A word of advice for students – cut the e-mails. They're time-consuming and a waste of public money, and I'm no better informed on HMOs than I was when I suggested modifications years ago.





The full article contains 899 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 April 2008 12:10 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Margo MacDonald
 
1

eric,

Lothian 16/04/2008 12:25:19
I agree,And NYC is a lot safer,Its all hype.
2

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

16/04/2008 12:45:28
I dont think we should bury our head in the sand here Margo. Ask The Glagow Evening Times. Every Monday edition they have another murder to report on.
3

Irn-Bruce,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 12:51:36
#1 - To add to your comment, I believe the UK's violent crime statistics are also high due to the number of fights occurring due to binge drinking (on Friday and Saturday nights, in particular).

Other countries, the USA included, just don't seem to suffer from this - which looks to be a singularly British problem.

Whilst such drunken, loutish behaviour is something to be ashamed of, it's easily avoided (by tourists, and locals who know better, alike), so doesn't pose much of a threat to the wider population.

I'd be interested to see how Glasgow's (or any other UK city's) violent crime statistics compared once "drunken weekend brawls" were taken out of the equation. I would hope that would lower them considerably.

4

Indie Rep Kid,

16/04/2008 12:52:43
It's a tad worrying when someone who is respected like this should just lump Edinburgh and Glasgow together so glibly.
5

John Knox furr First Meenister,

16/04/2008 13:52:15
"Last year saw 731 violent attacks per thousand Glaswegians as compared to New York's 631" Just in case anyone's interested in the real figures, it's 731 violent attacks per HUNDRED thousand.
6

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 16/04/2008 13:56:02
You always know someone is losing their argument when they feel they are right and ignore the evidence.

As for the NRA: the US has seen violent crime go down as state by state they relegalise handgun carry for citizens. That's unlike our violent crime rates which persistently rise.

Look at that pensioner on the front page who was twice stabbed by a home-invader. In the US the headline would have been a rather happier "Home Invader Shot by Pensioner". That and "Criminal Arrested After Pensioner Holds Him at Gunpoint" feature regularly in the US and is the reason why its citizens feel, and are, safer than ours.

We should hang our heads in shame that we require our old folks to fight mano a mano with criminals and refuse to allow them to provide for their own defence.
7

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/04/2008 14:03:08
Drunken fights:

"Other countries, the USA included, just don't seem to suffer from this - which looks to be a singularly British problem."

Try beating up a random passerby in the US when drunk and you'll find yourself shot by your proposed victim, or by a nearby concerned citizen. As that bloke from Aberdeen found out a few years back when he tried to kick down someone's back door in Texas, they don't stand for that sort of nonsense there.

Their football games are also safer than ours for similar reasons: Americans take their families to games, and are likely to shoot someone stupid enough to try raining bottles down on their kids. The would-be criminals know this and have the sense to behave accordingly.

We could learn a lot from the US, about dealing with violent crime, but not while fools like Margo are running the country who prefer to believe what they want to believe instead of what is.
8

Teofilio Cubillas,

16/04/2008 14:19:31
#7,8 very true. As well as the deterrents to violence that you talk about, the US and most European countries still maintain a cultural disdain of excessive drinking and loutish conduct.
In this country, however, we are warned against being 'judgemental' of others lifestyles - the result is our streets strewn with beggars, drunken halfwits wandering the city centre looking for fights, Calton Hill littered with used condoms, women in Leith accosted by kerb crawlers (when we had the 'tolerance' zone)and a generation of uneducated, welfare dependent wasters who will never know what a days work is.
9

AJ Fife,

16/04/2008 15:43:22
#9,

Have you ever considered working for the tourist industry?
10

Highland Mighty,

16/04/2008 15:55:39
What type of 'violent crime' are we talking about here?

Drunken punch-ups at closing time or shootouts between rival gangs?

2. Manhatten is safe as it is very heavily policed. Harlem, Bronx, Staten Island and parts of Queens are certainly not (that's heavily policed OR safe).

4. Drunken brawls are also common in the Balkans, Spain, Germany, many American cities, they are endemic in Russia....

In summary, I think someone has just taken a broad statistic and leapt to a ridiculous conclusion.
11

McGinty,

16/04/2008 16:31:35
#3 The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

'I dont think we should bury our head in the sand here Margo. Ask The Glagow Evening Times. Every Monday edition they have another murder to report on.'

Agree with this. There still exists in some circles a kind of culture in which some compile 'CV's' of various nefarious activities. If driving, amongst other things is any indicator, we also have a culture in which mutual respect is not the highest priority. To add to this, we have a climate of fear due, amongst other things, to the extremist activities of a disproportionate few. Unfortunately, in these cases, to call for peace and gooodwill to all men isn't going to work and I can only see harsher sentences on the horizon, and possibly another Blunkett or Tebbit in charge.
12

Ileach,

16/04/2008 16:47:23
I'd beg to differ with Irn-Bruce at #4. I've lived in Dallas, Texas for 30 years. The local evening news starts out with the first 20 minutes enumerating deliberate murders, drive-by shootings, serial rapes, road rage shootings, and deliberately set house fires. After that come deadly or only injurious car accidents, many with a pursuing police officer involved. Read the police blotter on Monday, and you will find how many "drunk and disorderly's" there have been over the weekend, and how many car chases, domestic violence incidents, or Emergency Department visits there have been due to alcohol and/or drug abuse. Where did this lore come from that only in Scotland are there adverse events due to drink and drugs? If this is true, then go downtown Dallas on any day of the week, and you will feel right at home!
13

piper,

16/04/2008 16:58:26
the problem with this country is the sentences are to lenient bring back the birch and before all you dogooders make yourm usual point about the poor sods coming from a deprivedbackground dont bother there is more people like me who would vote for tougher sentences than not vote for it
14

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 16/04/2008 18:03:36
#14: At least if someone breaks into your home to do you harm, you can shoot them and so long as it's a righteous shoot, you won't have any hassle but the cleaning bill.

In Scotland, if someone breaks into your home and you shoot them, you'll go to jail and they'll sue you for damages. Indeed if they trip on a rug they'll sue you for damages for having a dangerous environment.

The long and the short of it is that the politicians will side with the criminals ans pass Safety At Work legislation on their behalf. The guns ban is only the most egregious of such laws.
15

DebC,

Maryland, USA 16/04/2008 18:38:58
Upon reading this column, I thought I would put my 2 cents worth in. I am a dual national (Scottish/American) currently living 17 miles outside of Washington, D.C. and take great exception to the extremely broad brush that all American cities are painted with as stated in the column. I think to say "the lawlessness of the gang culture, ethnic ghettoes and organised crime networks in a number of American cities" is pretty harsh.

Admittedly, there are cities and areas of cities that should be avoided and like everywhere else in the world, people should be alert to their surroundings while out and about - that is common sense. However, having said that our "youth" DO NOT attack utility repairmen, firemen, police officers or ambulance drivers/paramedics - which seems to be a problem in Britain. That is because, quite frankly, our police officers take action and then ask questions later and not vice versa like the British police are forced to do.

The culture of binge drinking and youth violence is due to the police forces having their hands tied by people in Government who want to pander to the electorate to make sure that they get the vote in the next election cycle instead of taking control and running the country which is, after all, what Government is elected to do. Tying the hands of your police departments under the mantra of human rights does not do anybody any favors.
16

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 16/04/2008 19:24:45
I have lived in countries all over the world.

I have never been more wary than when walking home from the pub at night in Greenock.

The streets are given over to bands of drunken wee neds looking for strangers to give a good kicking.

Meanwhile law abiding citizens stay cowering in their homes out of fear.

Ask yourself the Question. Do you feel it is safe to walk alone through your town centre late at night?

17

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 17/04/2008 11:05:03
Well, I've walked late at night through New York, San Francisco, Denver, Vancouver and the dodgier areas of Philadelphia. I've never been so on my guard as walking through the centre of Glasgow after midnight. It's like a war zone there at weekends dodging aggressive drunks, panhandlers and teenage pimps.

Mind, I've had a car tyre shot out by a sniper in Colorado which was weird, and in Amsterdam, one nutcase followed me in a car trying to run me and my hired bicycle down. That really shook me up once I'd got away and the adrenaline wore off.

So, snipers apart, I think the US is pretty safe, and certainly safer than Glasgow.
18

Nietz,

Seems misleading 22/04/2008 06:36:06
Given that serious assault, homicide, and the really violent crimes were much higher in the US, it seems misleading to simply say Glasgow has more "incidents" when most of those incidents are actually verbal assault.

NYC does not even record such crimes as violent, so you are really comparing entirely different things.

 

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