"And a man with five years' experience with the bank said: "There's no one big enough to buy RBS now. The mood is good. Business as usual really.""
Not what I heard - when the shares touched 79p this morning I heard that Margiotta were considering a bid.

Sir Fred Goodwin should do the hon'ourable thing and resign........now!

RBS? Is that the bank that yesterday made this official statement?

"Contrary to press speculation, RBS did not make a request to government for capital."

http://www.investors.rbs.com/investor_relations/announcements/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=338832

Presumably they won't be taking any of this money then. Glad to see that they're in such good shape.

I wonder who at the RBS Headquarters bought the shares at 79p? and sold 3 hrs later making a massive profit.

#3
There are question marks now over Robert Peston's part in the market drop yesterday and as to who was breifing him.
The BBC's Robert Peston was coming out with information well ahead of any official statements and in some instances were inaccurate, even allthough he attributed to an official source.
RBS got hit, as well as other banks, based on Pestons remarks on his BBC Blog
RBS are very sound and were never looking for any capitalisation.
RBS had thre work cut out yesterday trying to calm things in issueing many statements which reiterated there strength.

Brown and Darling dithered and contributed to the fall in confidence
There are also suspicions that Alistair Campbell, who recently returned to the Labour machine, is somehow involved in the back breifing of Robert Peston as wel as other journalists.
Some intitutions in London are in discussion with legal firm as regards considering action against the BBC and Robert Peston

I find it astonishing that there are folk still blaming the Tories for this fiasco.
Fact - for 10 years the Blairites have subtly encouraged a culture of fame , celebrity , get-rich-quick . They deliberately and knowingly camouflaged the real state of the economy through emphasis on rising house prices ( which are just paper money ) . They turned a blind eye to the shocking level of personal debt when they had a moral duty to clamp down on it . They did nothing to clamp down on property programmes which encouraged folk to get into debt .
They spawned a whole generation of young so-called bankers who have no interest in providing a service but only in selling products designed to line their own pockets .

Poundland are selling there shares at the moment, dont rush theres loads there, in between the fag papers and the scary halloween masks.

No-one could buy RBS. HSBC are the only noteworthy Bank who did not get any bail out so presumably have sufficient working capital. Rumours were rife yesterday in the press.
Robert Preston set the hares running with his speculation, something which was later denuied by RBS to the Stock Exchange. They could not both be right, but by that time billions were wiped from the share value. So who do you believe?

#2 So should you!!

#9
Robert Peston is Labours mouth piece

Will the Scottish Government set up a regulator to protect bank customers. With a regulator in place the taxpayer will not be liable to bale out the private investors who were not quick enough to join the 'run'.

For years they have made BILLIONs in Profits

Spent billions buying other banks (natwest and some dutch bank)

Got involved in USA, "lending" to people with a low credit rating.

the bosses have paid themselves handsomely
the shareholders have received dividends

and when it all goes down the tubes

Its not there fault !!!

Where do they come to, the TAXPAYER to bail them out.

9 - totally agree . He said the HBOS takeover WILL go ahead . Excuse me , but that's down to the HBOS shareholders .

if goodwin does go, he will do so with his pockets bulging

Oh the irony.
A Loretto educated Marxist bailing the banks out !

Ukio Bankio must be under the groundio pretty soonio?

Hope us taxpayers aren't going to pay for the usual free Christmas booze ups for all bank staff. They should be like most other folk and pay for there own parties

Just a thought - but if you've presided over a £691000000 loss, is it not kind of insulting to your staff, the customers, the taxpayer, and the industry, if you walk away with a multimillion pound 'bonus'?

In fact, more than just insulting - wouldn't it just prove you were a cash glutton all along who never gave a stuff for your customers?

Please log on and tell us, Shred. I'd love to hear your views on this one.

Bonuses are paid on the basis of past year's financial results . That often gives rise to anomalies where there is a downturn in trading .

Joe Smith - would you have taken his job had you been quaified a few years back and it was offered to you .
The guy probably works all hours of the day , and no I am not an RBS employee .

#21

It's not a matter of whether I would have taken his job.

What I am asking is this:

If you have presided over a loss (over half a BILLION pounds) - how can you have the lack of perspective to believe that you are worth a bonus when you get emptied.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. Especially now that the bank has been part-nationalised.

I say, again, that if Shreddie goes by bye - it is morally imperative that he does so without being rewarded for his part in a disaster.

You shouldn't get any bonus for doing your job correctly. That's what you get a salary for. If you don't do your job well you get sacked. Straightforward

Are you sure it is Banking?

could someone please explain to me what information Lawrence K Fish (a US based Director of RBS) had that persuaded him to dispose of 140,000 shares on 22nd September 2008 @ £2.224 per share since when they dropped like a stone. selling his shares yesterday he might have "only" made £157,000 instead of £312760. did he realise that there was a sh*t storm coming from the sub-prime market in the USA but kept quiet about it while he disposed of his shares.
have a look
http://shares.telegraph.co.uk/quote/index.php?epic=RBS&epicSearchSubmit=Go

How did you know that? I thought the EEN didn't disclose personal information?

Jenny Dawe, Alastair Darling and Ronnie Browne of the corries

Seaparated at birth?

23 - so you would turn a bonus down if offered ???

Just remember this......The Government are giving £50 billion of YOUR money to the banks so they can lend it back to YOU and make a profit.

It would be funny if it wasnt true.

Robert |Peston must shoulder a lot of the blame - he may be keen to break news and make a name for himself, but if the whole system collapses there will be untold social consequences for this country. He needs to stop and think what the outcome of his pronouncements will be. He is a dangerous indivisual who needs to be reiend in - and quickly! Otherwise we will talk ourselves into an even worse mess - if that is possible.

apologies for my terrible typing in my previous post!

The rumor is that Fred Goodwin and Tom Mcilliop are are to be replaced by Stephen Hester, formerly of the Abbey, and Sir Philip Hampton, chairman of Sainsbury's.

After the fantastic job by Andy "ASDA" Hornby in destroying any remaining value in HBOS, Gordon Brown has decided that the banks are best run by grocers.

In fact plans are a foot to turn them all into subsidiarys of the Grocery Chains.

We will soon have:

The Royal Bank of Sainsbury's

The Halifax Bank of ASDA

Lloyds Morrisons

Barlclays Safeway

You won't be able to withdraw your money, but you will given club points instead that you can redeem for groceries.

Robert Pest is a Labour party spokesman .

New banking rules mark 1:

1. Limit to bonuses.
2. regular windfall taxes to the exchequer went shares rise above certain level.

Oops! went=when

#37 Asda Aldi and Lidl Lloyds sound better.

For years they have made BILLIONs in Profits

Spent billions buying other banks (natwest and some dutch bank)

Got involved in USA, "lending" to people with a low credit rating.

the bosses have paid themselves handsomely
the shareholders have received dividends

and when it all goes down the tubes

Its not there fault !!!

And where do they come to, the TAXPAYER to bail them out, what are shareholders for ?

Could be worse, Aberdeen Council could have had there bank account in Iceland

RBS can claim "no ma fault" - but it won't convince. HSBC didn't need taxpayer money, now, did it?

No generous bonuses for the blind drivers who've crashed their company into a wall. Simple as that.

#32 - your hypothetical questions are fairly tedious. The fact is this: RBS belongs to us now. The taxpayers, not the plutoctratic blind drivers.

HSBC can pay their Chief executive's bonus in millions if they like, cos it ain't taxpayer millions.

#44 Joe Smith

News for you neither does RBS need taxpayers moneyt, tyhey never asked for any to start with.

My mistake, Edward. Apologies.

#45

wait a minute, I just checked Google News and there's about 300 stories saying that the Government is using £50billion of taxpayer money to shore up UK banks, including RBS.

Looks like it's you that's wrong "Edward" - are you a RBS employee?

next you'll be telling me Fred won't be going on 'garden leave' any time soon.

Fred The Shed, in his garden, watering dead plants.

I've just lent £20,000 to someone who cannot pay it back and bought some dodgy stuff from someone called Arthur Daly for for a small fortune.

Will the Government help me out, Not

As someone said on the Scottish News, the banks have caused this mess, why aren't they sorting it out themselves.

#47 Joe Smith
Your not Alistair Campbell are you?
There is a whole swathe of mis information out there
An example of which manifested itself on Reporting Scoland, which completely got the story wrong, the question is, was that deliberate?
Reporting Scotland Stated that the £ 50 Billion of taxpayerts money would free up inter bank lending. NOPE thats incorrect, its the availabilty of £ 200 billion by the Bank of England injecting liquidity that will free up the inter bank lending, something that Banks such as RBS have been suggesting should happen for the past week.
Then Reporting Scotland stated that the £ 50 billion would be used in taking a share in RBS and the shareholders would end up worse off. Again very very wrong. RBS have made t very clear that they do not require capitalisation.
So why is the BBC doing this? We already have had the London based Robert Peston contributing to the cras yesterday, by stating information that was clearly leaked by the London Government.
Ive read an article in the Times today, which states that RBS will need to ask the government for some Capitalisation as they are having problems selling off the insurance divisions . Again more mis information.
There is a school of thought that Alistair Campbell is behind all of this mis information and leaks. The aim being to destabilise the market, to put pressure on the Scottish Banks to make them look bad, then for Brown and Darling to apparently come to the rescue and make them look good. Result, Banks look bad, everyone against big business, everyone thinks that Brown and Darling are not that bad after all, so come the next election (or by election) Labour voted in again. As a side bar, the Scottish Banks dont look as good as they used to be, so help Labours arguement in Scotland that Scotland cant go it alone.
If you think thats far fetched, then I suggest you do more routing around, look at the FT's Alphaville forum and see some of the comments on there
Remember Brown has br

#47
By the way Im not an RBS employee.
But I am someone who is concerned about the apparent dirty tricks being used to manipulate the media and to manipulate the man in the streets thinking

Zzzzzzzzzzz oh you ran out of space - Thank God. Where's Carla - I'm bored.

#48
The banks in the UK did not cause this mess.
The problem stgarted in the US with sub prime mortgages
It was Building Societies in the UK who also got involved in selling Mortgages and second mortgages to people who really coulndt afford it. Such as Northern Rock (which was a Building Society, but demutalised and called itself a 'bank'), Bradford & Bingley, Halifax (which is part of HBOS)
The problem with main street Banks is that inter bank lending has dried up so have a liquidity problem.
What that means is the banks themslves are solvent, but never have ready money hanging around to loan out.
If you take RBS for example its actually worth well over one thousand Billion pounds. Banks used to loan each other through something called LIBOR and this was not restricted to the UK, but also involved US and other international Banks. But since the credit crunch in the US this stream of ready money has dried. Which is why the Government are having the Bank of England make available £ 200 billion on long term, in order to prime the pump and get banks to start lending each other. The problem may cme when a Building Society or former Building Society wants to loan money from a Bank at the preferential LIBOR rates, the Bank may still turn them down.
The perception that its'the banks' fault is inacurate, but is something that the Government in London are fostering as it helps them look good

think you'll find the RBS was involved in the sub prime mortgages (which are correct me basically money loaned to people who should never have been loaned money in the 1st place.

Is it a Perception that Financial Institutions have caused this problem or more a fact.

That many have lent money ,
130% mortgages,
offered us credit cards with 0% to pay for 18 months
lent us 6 times salaries for mortgages

but were has all the billions of pounds in profits gone, what ever happened to putting something away for a rainy day as someone suggested in another comment?

BANKING GIANT ONE OF THE WORST AFFECTED

Royal Bank of Scotland has been one of the worst affected of the UK banking giants by the crisis in credit markets.

Hefty write-downs and an ill-timed takeover of Dutch bank ABN Amro saw the group forced to ask shareholders for £12 billion earlier this year – the biggest rights issue in UK corporate history.

It then announced its first loss in 40 years as it unveiled first half figures, but moved to assure investors that its fundraising efforts had sufficiently strengthened its finances.

Concerns over the group have continued to dog Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), with today's share price fall coming on top of a 61 per cent plunge in stock value since the beginning of the year.

The UK's second biggest bank, which also owns NatWest, yesterday saw its troubles compounded further when credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut its rating on the firm amid fears over its future earnings and write-downs.

The move effectively means that RBS is now deemed a less safe institution to lend money to, which is set to make it even more difficult for the bank to secure funds at a time when interbank lending has already all but frozen.

RBS bosses have come under heavy fire for their part in the bank's woes, which drove the need to tap shareholders for such a large sum.
Chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin was forced to assure investors that he remained the best man for the job as he unveiled pre-tax losses of £691 million in the first half of the year.

It wrote down £5.9 billion from the credit crunch in the six month period alone, coming on top of billions of losses from the financial turmoil and US sub-prime mortgage market last year.

The Edinburgh-based financial heavyweight recorded losses of £692 million in the first half of this year, compared to a £5bn profit at this time last year

so were did the £5bn go?

Depressing. Not a patch on the story of the year in last nights edition. Cala & Arntie Ann, missing you already

Edward, my logorrheic friend. You are the one that's misinformed - you're buying into conspiracy theory and repeating weird stuff.

A bit advice Eddy, my prolix pal - the voices in the molars of your teeth are lying to you.

#52: Edward: Nope, the US is not the cause. It was a gigantic global credit bubble, the largest in history. It lasted 25 years but it was always going to burst in the end. It just so happens that the first leak sprung three years ago in the subprime mortgages in the US.

However, there are now more prime mortgages (require a reasonable deposit and proof of income) in default in the US than subprime. Leaks have also sprung in car loans and the derivatives based on them and in credit card loans and the derivatives based on them. Yes, the same slicing and dicing that was done with mortgages was done with those loans too and the chickens are now circling the roost there too.

The bubble was global, so a little later, but just the same loans are starting to go sour in other countries which had housing, car loan and credit card bubbles.
Worse, the infection reached the credit default swap markets. Just more derivatives involving bets on finance, but it is suspected that there are 1000 trillion Dollars worth of those, about 14 times the entire earnings of the world in a year. Trouble there will make trouble in the mortgage markets look like someone forgetting some change.

Who's to blame? Everyone who didn't save for what they wanted and borrowed to get it now instead. Everyone who has had a debt of any sort in the past 25 years. You can't have a credit bubble without people getting into debt.

That's pretty much everyone though, which is why it's scapegoats we want to find, not the people who are really to blame.

#55

RBS actually made an uderlying profit of about £5 billion foer the half year.

RBS decided to write down £5.9 billion of assets relating to sub prime etc.

So, he buisness is still profitable but they took a hit on the half year numbers. Many others haven't gone quite so far with the write downs and I'm sure they will still have more bad news to report.

Obviously involvement in an area which has proved riskier than anyone realised is not clever but it is not really an RBS or even a UK matter only is it? Everyone in financial services got involved.

If you didn't, investors were asking why you weren't taking more risk to get more return. Lloyds TSB used to get slated for being too conservative.

I think there is also a lack of understanding over the cost of ABN Amro to RBS. As part of a consortium the actual cost was far less than usually reported and the last reports suggested they were ahead of the expected intergration bebefits.

It's easy to point the finger to the top but really, is it bad leadership or just a mrket, led by investors themselves, venturing into an area where no-one truly understood the risks.

The underlying figures show the rest of the bank is doing quite nicely.

#60 - sounds as though you are a loyal RBS employee.

They should do the honourable thing and step down without a golden handshake. No one is bigger than the bank. I suspect like the bank they are too arrogant to do so. It's always someone else's fault not the banks!!

How many times do you hear that?

If my company was not doing well due to/in part my direction I would stand down. It's all relative and Im not prepared to sit back and allow them to have huge dividends and pay backs.

Hello From America,
Third generation of Scots descent, owner of 400 Preferred shares in RBS. I suppose it is way to early to hope for word on the fate of the dividend. I would imagine it is history for quite some time to come.

I should have known RBS was getting in trouble a few years ago when my broker called to sell these shares as a new issue. Having lived in Scotland for a year and with my family ties, I guess I was an easy mark. One can study the list of Preferred Stock holdings that appears in the Wall Street Journal over here and it reads like a list of distresssed banks as they have milked that market for all it was worth.

One thing behind all this isn't just the subprime mortgages themselves, but the degree to which these were leveraged. Our Securities and Exchange Commission in 2004 allowed Lehman, Merrill, Bear Stearns, Goldman and Morgan Stanley to increase leverage from $12.00 for every dollar they had to up to $40.00 per $1.00. Leverage on anything (land, homes, stocks) is wonderful when prices rise but can kill you when they fall. They trusted their sacred computer models that told them it was worth the risk rather than live by the common sense rules myself and most other people follow where money is concerned. THE SEC approved that at a brief meeting in which they treated it as a mundane request! Investments should NEVER be made on margin, especially risky ones!

#58

How dare you say that you cheeky b******

I'm reporting you to the Mods, who will go after you on a fleet of Vespa mopeds and batter you in riot on the beach.

#61 Jingsitsme,EDINBURGH
Ive a feeling your not really from Edinburgh nor Scotland
Anyway the fact of the matter RBS have not done anything wrong and has been pointed out made a £ 5 billion profit for the first half year and has used this to pay off £ 5.9 billion debt related to sub prime.
The funny thing is BBC Reporting Scotland failed to report this and instead stated that RBS had made a loss and were going to have to ask for capital from the government. This was erronous and completely false. Hopefully RBS will be doing something about that.
Now reported in todays Guardian, it is Barclays who are puting in a request for £ 3 billion from the taxpayer, which doesnt surprise.
The fact of the matter is that Labour would be very happy to see RBS come cap in hand. A lot of the breifing regarding RBS comes from Labour in London and most likely Alistair Campbell. So I would take what ever the BBC and this rag of a paper says about RBS and HBOS at the moment as there is a sustained campaign by Labour to trash Banking in Scotland as it is seen as one of the planks of the arguement for independence

#64

You need to let up with the conspiracy theories.

I'm no supporter of Labour, but one thing I will say is that Gordon Brown is a grown-up. Whereas you, "Edward" are just a bleating child.

i'm just waiting for the share price to hit 1p then i'm in for the takeover. look out boys

Men who hold positions like this should not receive any bonuses at all. Their salary should be more than enough. No wonder this country is in the state it is. Oh and yes he should resign with no fat pay out

Will Gordon Brown get a bonus when he's beaten at the next election?

Will he ****

#68 Och aye, big Goggs is worth a bo.ner bonus, eh?

Fred hasn't stood down yet, but I'm waiting by my phone.

#64 Edward, "RBS... made a £ 5 billion profit for the first half year and has used this to pay off £ 5.9 billion debt related to sub prime."
Not a loss then? Care to predict the full year results?

#71

Edward would predict the full year results, but he's prevented by a Labour conspiracy.

Alistair Campbell is a six foot lizard, and he's disinforming the media for his own evil ends.

Its a bit rich for bankers and financiers to whinge about dirty tricks - bless their little socks they'd never spread rumours, take advantage of leaky chinese walls or offload share options at an appropriate time would they?

As for the BBC mouthpiece - Peston has obviously been the recipient of a series of leaks designed to have an impact.

Just start asking who would benefit from a major shares slide.

And also query why the best american journalistic practice of checking sources appears to have been ignored so often?

Thought that Auntie had learned her lessons over the Hutton inquiry.

have you ever noticed that most banks now have ex asda barrow boys in charge, take andy hornby the liar who brought down the HBOS, he still has his millions and a job with perks, just like this idiot fred goodwin who has in my eyes been nothing but a liabliity for RBS, time is now to make thes pathetic jokes pay for the way they have run our banks into almost oblivion,

they do not deserve a pension or perks and they should have every bonus paid to them while running the banks into the ground taken from them, we have liars crooks and scumbags running some of our most important companies, time for a witch hunt and maybe a lynching(the lynching is a joke folks)

oh and another thing i always thought to be a knight you had to be someone of prestige and honor, well i'm afraid fred is neither and if they can strip lester pigotts obefrom him for tax evasion then fred should have his removed for the blatant disregard for shareholders and customers wishs and for the lies regarding the bailout, the man is a liar lets hope his pants goes on fire and he gets as badly burnt as the poor investors in RBS

investing, by-outs and share dealing is always a risky business even for banks and financial institutions and the RBS like every other one has done it well up until now. WHY are all the shareholders moaning now, and not at previous AGM and EGM about the way things were going............... OH yeah they were raking in their profits then.
If people were not so greedy, worldwide this present situation would not be happening.
AND scary reports from the media don't help.

#24 - I'm big enough to do it