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Capital can beat economic downturn, says Swinney



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Published Date: 27 August 2008
FINANCE secretary John Swinney today claimed Edinburgh and Scotland were well placed to weather the economic downturn and emerge stronger at the end.
Addressing Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce at its breakfast-time annual general meeting, he said the Capital would continue to flourish by playing to its strengths.

And he told the chamber he could "guarantee" the Scottish Government would fully sup
port efforts to help Edinburgh go from strength to strength.

He said: "Edinburgh is rich in economic assets. The city is a world-renowned tourist destination, one of Europe's foremost financial services centres and is home to a growing cutting-edge life sciences industry.

"On top of that, the labour market in the Capital continues to perform robustly and the signs are that the property market in Scotland continues to show greater resilience than elsewhere in the UK."

Mr Swinney said it would be foolish to dismiss the effects of the global economic downturn, both on Scotland and on Edinburgh.

"We can't isolate ourselves from international financial conditions."

But he said: "By playing to our clear strengths here in Scotland and in Edinburgh, I am convinced we are well placed to weather the new challenges we are facing and emerge stronger than before.

"If we redouble efforts to work together and promote Edinburgh as a great place to do business and to visit, we can ensure the Capital's economy continues to grow."

He welcomed the setting up of the new Business Improvement District, Essential Edinburgh, and said he looked forward to a similar BID project based on the city's tourism industry.

And he went on: "I can guarantee the Government will fully support your efforts to help Edinburgh go from strength to strength. We have already slashed business rates for small business across the city and refocused our enterprise networks and tourism agency to ensure they make the maximum possible contribution to economic growth.

"On top of that, we'll continue to look at how we can make sure the planning system operates with the efficiency and certainty needed to support economic growth.

"And we'll continue to push Westminster to act on the cost of fuel – an issue I know effects business of all sizes. By working together, I believe we can make Edinburgh, and Scotland, a more successful place."

Chamber chief executive Ron Hewitt said as Scotland's economic development engine Edinburgh had a heavy responsibility for Scotland's economic wellbeing.

And he emphasised the need to encourage new investment.

He said: "Despite the credit crunch, there are many funds holding billions of pounds that could be invested in Scotland. We are working hard to ensure that the city and the country creates the conditions to attract our share of that investment."

But he said there was still work to do. "In spite of the evidence from economists around the world that metro regions are the new drivers of national wealth, the development of a truly integrated economic strategy, transport infrastructure and unified partnership across the city region remains 'work in progress'. It is plain that our ability to compete with the growing family of world cities depends upon it."





The full article contains 526 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 August 2008 10:07 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

FrankGallagher,

27/08/2008 12:45:09
Apparently they are putting on a fireworks display this sunday to warden off all evil
2

Possil,

Glasgow 27/08/2008 12:45:19
#1 & #2 the same way as any other finacial centre does it, perhaps?
3

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 27/08/2008 12:49:16
Very amusing Mr Swinney. How did the countries of the 'arc of prosperity' avoid le crunch? Whoops! They didn't. Strangely, they're faring worse than us! Let's airbrush that from SNP rhetoric, then.
4

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 12:51:19
I suspect that he has one hand with an extra finger on it.
5

,

27/08/2008 12:52:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

ccc,

27/08/2008 12:53:01
"Edinburgh and Scotland were well placed to weather the economic downturn"

"The city is a world-renowned tourist destination, one of Europe's foremost financial services centres"

Does this guy have a clue ? To think this guy is the Finance Secretary as well.

There is no hope.
7

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 13:03:19
As with Brown, this is a transparent attempt to heap some early blame on "global financial conditions" before the ordure hits the rotator as a result of his policies.
8

Clen Peapus,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 13:04:59
You have to expect government ministers to place a positive spin on events, to retain a level of optimism.

Otherwise his speech would have been along the lines of "...human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA!"

What do you expect him to say?
9

The Hallucinist,

27/08/2008 13:09:27
#9 A Friend of Fernando Poo

Do you think the night watchman will be effected by the economic downturn?
10

Buttress,

27/08/2008 13:14:09
Oh, cosying up the the Chamber of Commerce and telling them he will ensure planning decisions such as Caltongate are pushed through without any call-in...

Of course Mountgrange holds the CoC Property Portfolio.


www.eh8.org.uk
11

Buttress,

27/08/2008 13:29:05
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00d3j0v

Good Morning Scotland this morning, Sir Terry Farrell, about 2hrs 22 mins into the prog.

The Chamber of Commerce (or at least Ron Hewitt) thinks that spoiling the WHS is OK though.

12

The Hallucinist,

27/08/2008 13:34:21
Where is A Friend of Fernando Poo?? Have you run off with the night watchman?
13

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 13:54:05
Glad to see CCC and Mike Holmes are up to date with their usual pessimistic comments; having said that for once I agree with them and this is clearly spin!
14

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 13:56:41
1. The other day, Salmond tried to tell us that house prices were still increasing in Scotland, contrary to all the indicators and experiences here in the real world.

It turned out he was using data from last year.

2. For years now, Salmond regularly complained that Scotland was not receiving its full share of oil revenues.

But on publication of their first GERS, they are forced to admit that we DO receive our full share.

3. Last summer, Swinney proudly declared that Scotland's GDP was £160bn.

But then the SNP have to admit, even with far higher oil prices than last summer, our GDP is approx £125bn.

And these people expect us to believe what they say about Scotland's economy post-independence?

"6th richest country in the world if the SNP had control of oil revenues", was it?

LOL.
15

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 14:15:51
It is funny but both CCC and Mike go quiet at the same time!
16

Linda,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 14:45:21
Scotland is subsidising the UK treasury by over £5 billion pounds this financial year.
17

Alan B,

27/08/2008 14:46:21
#Highland Mighty

Given the economic disaster we have in Brown and labour over the last 10yrs, it would be very difficult for the snp to be worse.

Brown has left the uk economy with massive public sector deficits. When he should have been running a much tigher fiscal policy so that when the global economy throws up problems we can repond. His fiscal stance has not only broken his golden rules but has been completley inept.

He has also grown the public sector at a rate that exceded the private sector growth to pay for it.

Add to that brown has managed to allow personal debts to go through the roof.

This largely due to his complete failure to control asset price inflation most notibly house prices.

He also destroyed pension with his extreme shorttermism.

And created a regulatory framework that allowed the failure of the first uk bank for donkeys.



18

Mikey,

27/08/2008 14:49:06
It's quite sickening, reading all these people who would rather see Scotland go down the tubes than progress!

If you find it too hard to live here, the Waverly has loads of trains south to your utopia!
19

,

27/08/2008 14:53:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 14:56:08
18. My God, are there are still people out there who believe this?

Where did you get this from?

20. So...let me get this straight....anyone who is against the SNP is therefore against Scotland or wants Scotland to fail? Is that what you are trying to say?
21

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 14:58:06
#11: I don't think anyone will be "effected" by the downturn. Some however might be *affected*.

I see I was correct about the Ladyboys making a huge mess of the Meadows with their trailers. It's worse than ever now.
22

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 15:01:20
18. Aaah, you said "THIS year". Got you.

Okay, what about the previous TWENTY years when the money was flowing the other way?

Also, how does your £5bn stand now that oil prices have dropped dramatically?

(By the way, Grant Thornton ESTIMATED that it COULD BE £4.4bn...but you go ahead and round this particular FORECAST upwards!)
23

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 15:02:36
#19: You have to expect socialists to destroy wealth. It's what they do. It's all they do, and they absolutely will not stop.

At best the Nationalist Socialists will only do just as bad.
24

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 15:24:52
We are setting records today - once again I completely agree with Mike! It is amazing we have agreed on something twice today!
25

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 15:31:33
Taking Swinney's points in turn.

Tourism will be hit by higher petrol and jet fuel prices. On finance, experts are already questioning whether the derivatives mess has damaged the reputation of financial centres in the west and whether finance jobs will now move to Japan and China.

If the housing market in Scotland seems to perform better than that in England, it's because we're a little beghind them in the cycle, just as the UK is behind the US. Right now we're in the position that it's always darkest before it gets even darker.

He may prove right on Bio-sciences though. It's too early to tell. It's during the recovery that strong growth in new technology companies is seen, not during the bust.

Meanwhile, a deflation is looking ever more likely. Perhaps one benefit of that will be less cant from the politicians. Their basic mistake is that people don't need false optimism, they need instruction on how to prepare for what's coming. That will do them a lot more good in the long run.
26

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 15:32:43
21. You have forgotten the Barnett transfers that follow the initial block grant.

Any extra expenditure elsewhere in the UK is more than matched in Scotland.

Don't you know that?

(As you have copy/pasted this post on EVERY article, I'll do the same to ensure you see this correction to your error.)
27

Alan B,

27/08/2008 15:42:28
#A Friend of Fernando Poo

"If the housing market in Scotland seems to perform better than that in England, it's because we're a little beghind them in the cycle"

Disagree somewhat with that statement. Firstly new housing starts are probably as poor as englands. With regards to house prices scotlands prices do not tend to be as overinflated as englands so tend not fall in the same way Englands do. From what i have heard in england different regions are being hit differently.

28

Alan B,

27/08/2008 15:44:01
#Highland Mighty

"Any extra expenditure elsewhere in the UK is more than matched in Scotland."

Except where Brown decides not to pass the money on to Scotland. eg prisons etc. Also some spending in london is classified as UK spending and as such not passed on.

29

Alan B,

27/08/2008 15:47:01
#A Friend of Fernando Poo

"Meanwhile, a deflation is looking ever more likely."

How do you come to that conclusion. Inflation is currently the problem we are suffering.

If we had not bought into the deflation argument a few yrs ago the BOE might have ensured they were actually meeting the central inflation target and not at the top end for most of that period. An issue that has come home to roost.
30

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 15:52:32
#29: Alan, I was thinking in terms of averages. Agree that the bust will be worse where the bubbles blew up prices most. Even in the US there are vast differences: year-on-year house price falls of around 30% in California, Nevada and Florida, whereas they're not falling at all in the Midwest places where there was no bubble.

Sadly though, when unemployment comes, it will be spread more evenly.
31

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 15:57:16
30. Strange how Salmond screams from the rooftops when he thinks the UK is taking Scotland's money...

..but he is totally silent after he is shown that the money is coming INTO Scotland, not leaving it.

If there is an oil-fuelled surplus in the next GERS, naturally we are going to hear the nats wailing at full volume.

However, there will be no mention of the last TWENTY CONSECUTIVE YEARS during which the UK has been looking after repeated multi-billion deficits.
32

The Hallucinist,

27/08/2008 15:58:14
#32 Do you think the night watchman will be affected by the economic downturn?

You should have had them all staying at Mortonhall Caravan Park. The night watchman could have saved some money over the last month to prepare for the recession.
33

Alan B,

27/08/2008 15:59:49
#A Friend of Fernando Poo

The US is abit different as they have over supply.

From what I have heard london is holding up quite well even though it was part of the bubble. While Manchester has been hit hard. This is hearsay rather than any following of what is actually happening.
34

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 16:00:39
31: I agree that the deflation view is harder to defend at the moment. I'm partly going by the history that shows deflations follow the largest credit bubbles due to the fast contraction in credit through deleveraging and default.

So far we've got the necessary post-bubble asset collapse underway and there's no doubt that debt is being written off wholesale in the credit markets.

Yes, there is inflation driven by a rise in commodity prices. How much else is rising in price though? Then there's the possibility the commodities bull run is also over.

Once people start paying down debt to get through the recession or depression that's coming, and more writeoffs in the credit markets are driven by further falls in asset prices, we'll see new lending fall below the amount of debt that's being paid down or defaulted upon.

At that point we have a falling money supply and the gateway to deflation. From there it'll be driven by further asset falls and a more or less complete collapse in lending as banks go from prudence to just trying to survive.

I see a strong argument for inflation getting out of control too (and it probably will in some countries) but my gut says it's deflation for us. There's just been too much debt built up in the bubble.
35

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 16:01:07
31. With the high inflation currently being experienced round the world mostly attributed to high food and fuel costs, it is quite possible that any major correction in prices (such as the recent 25% fall in oil prices) could see inflation nudging zero% or even deflation.

Some recent inflation forecasts are as low as 1% in the short-term.
36

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 16:08:26
Alan B reckons:

"If we had not bought into the deflation argument a few yrs ago the BOE might have ensured they were actually meeting the central inflation target and not at the top end for most of that period. An issue that has come home to roost."

I think the deflation scare in 2003 was all too real. We should have taken our licks then though and let the recession happen. All we've succeeded in doing in blowing yet more bubble is to ensure we go into it with more privata and public debt. I said in 2003 that Greenspan and Brown (who colluded then) would go down in history as the men who saved a recession at the cost of a depression.

I haven't seen anything yet to change my mind.
37

Alan B,

27/08/2008 16:10:15
#Highland Mighty

The real issue is not deficits or surplus. (it would be surprising if scotland deficits given the fact the uk is almost always in deficit, and it would be more surprising now given the huge deficits brown has run up for the uk. Taking account of pfi and non funded public sector pensions (not allowed in private sector) uk debt is now greater than 100% of gdp).

Oil simply masks the underlying issues scotland has, and gives us a window of opportunity to do something about it.

The real issue is how to address scotlands slow economic growth. If we had grown at 2.8% like the rest of the uk over the last decade that would make our fiscal postion considerably better. If we had grown at the 3.8% average of the small european countries known as the arc of prosperity we would be laughing.

How we are not. We are stuck with a slower growth rate of 2.2% over the last decade (less that 2% over the last 30yrs) worse that both the uk as a whole and outperformed by these small countries which have done better than the uk.

This slow growth rate should also be put inperspective. We managed this during a period of decent global economic growth. (Now we are entering a period of slower global growth.) Much of the uk growth was also done extreme short termism ie growing the public sector faster than the private sector could afford causing huge uk public sector deficits. And also by creating a consumer boom through huge personal debt. (the trade deficit is almost silly)
38

The Hallucinist,

27/08/2008 16:12:29
#38 Will the night watchman not change your mind?
39

Alan B,

27/08/2008 16:15:59
#Highland Mighty

1% inflation is not deflation. While food and oil have gone up quickly in the inflation figures of cpi it is now only 4%. As such i think it will be difficult to actually see cpi fall consistently.

I think the stagflation argument is possibly abit more closer to the truth.
40

Buttress,

27/08/2008 16:21:20
Maybe the Chamber of Commerce would take a minute to read this today:

http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

So interesting!

41

Alan B,

27/08/2008 16:22:43
#A Friend of Fernando Poo

While i support the independence of the BOE. Do you not think that they should have ensured that the inflation rate was more closely aligned with their central target.
42

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 16:26:01
Aw Poo you just had to go and ruin it - we were on a roll and then you went back to your old negative ways!

You can try to convince people as much as you like about how bad things will get but at the end off the day without the crytal ball we will never know and it only looks as if you are trying to sensationalize such issues so you have something to write about! I suppose it keeps you in a job!
43

Don't believe the hype.,

Embra 27/08/2008 16:26:15
Lay off the Pipe John.
44

The Correspondent,

27/08/2008 16:37:51
Poo = Mike Holmes
45

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 16:43:26
39. Scotland has grown at between 4-5% a year on average over the past decade. Feel free to rebuke SNP claims of lesser growth for yourself.

41. One more time: We have been keeping our full share of oil revenues for the last 20 consecutive years. Plus Holyrood's repeated multi-billion deficits have all been serviced by the rest of the UK.

It doesn't really matter if you refuse to accept this, it is a fact, pure and simple. Even Salmond doesn't deny it anymore (in case you haven't noticed his post-GERS silence on the matter!)
46

mr angry,

ayrshire 27/08/2008 16:58:00
#48 you are obviously completely stupid or on drugs. Your reasoning above is garbage, no way we have had 5% growth and absolutely no way we have benefited from the oil revenue. The country has been run to suit the south east of England, ie London and the model did not fit Scotland's profile. There is absolutely no way we can prosper whilst in the union , we will continue to underperform for these reasons. Scotland needs fiscal independence to allow it to adopt a fiscal policy to suit its needs.
47

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 17:02:01
50. Quick c&p from another article:

Using UN WTO records of GDP growth:
Scotland's GDP per capita 1994 = £17,583
Scotland's GDP per capita 2004 = £33,214

That equates to roughly 5% growth per annum.
48

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 17:02:49
#44: I think they still should be!
49

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 17:04:22
51 [contd]. As for your oil revenue nonsense, feel free to break away from the flock and actually read The Beloved Leader's first GERS report.

It clearly states that even with the "full geographic share of oil revenues", there was still a £2.7bn deficit....which was covered by the rest of the UK.
50

mr angry,

ayrshire 27/08/2008 17:08:08
#51, another pile of horse manure
51

mr angry,

27/08/2008 17:12:03
#53 what about all the reports that stated there was a surplus if you included the revenue. However given that it is almost impossible to extract all Scotlands revenue we will never know until independent what it really is.
The UK numbers are all biased to inflate everything to London and under state other areas. We will never get the treatment we deserve in union as it would not fit London , so we have to get the same treatment which does not suit us.
52

Alan B,

27/08/2008 17:13:46
#Highland Mighty

The uk which grew faster than scotland only grew at 2.8% over the last decade.

I am talking about the announced growth rate. The ones you would see in the economist. None of the major developed countries except for ireland has anything like 5% growth.

53

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 17:16:17
55. You are either talking about Salmond's bizarre spin of the GERS report claiming a £837m 'surplus' if you ignore £3.5bn of his own spending...

...or you are talking about the Grant Thornton report which is a FORECAST for THIS YEAR ONLY, based on recent high oil prices.

As for your claimed bias, Salmond heavily publicised the fact that he had challenged "over 300 items" in Labour's accounts before eventually coming up with a revised GERS that was almost identical to the accounts he had challenged.
54

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 17:19:13
...or was it "3000 items"...?
55

Buttress,

27/08/2008 17:35:10
Latest news:

http://www.independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/


all planning apps passed.

56

democracy,

Scottish Borders 27/08/2008 17:56:54
#22 High and Shighty, you said "So...let me get this straight....anyone who is against the SNP is therefore against Scotland or wants Scotland to fail? Is that what you are trying to say?"

No,that is not what #20 was implying, it is what YOU are implying because it is YOU who is the SNP hater because your own party has been found out and you cant take it, so you resort to name calling and fake figures and lies just like your own party does, it is ingrained into your psyche and most posters know this about you , so you are totally wasting your breath!!
57

democracy,

Scottish Borders 27/08/2008 18:08:59
#1 & 2, try reading it again, he explains plenty to confirm his statement, much much more than you could get from Brown or Darling, the best you could ever get from them is sound bites, and even those were given to them by advisers, unlike Swinney, because he understands his remit himself.

On second thoughts, don't bother reading the passage again it is my guess it would be a waste of time, YAWN.
58

The Tin Man,

27/08/2008 18:44:48
I would like to point out that Scottish independence is a matter of the heart, not the wallet. We are talking about forever, after all.

Economic arguments on the subject are meaningless.

59

Alan B,

27/08/2008 18:49:11
#The Tin Man

Thats your view.

The economic situation to me is important. That one of the reasons I would back independence.

Abit like when assessing EU membership, you look to see if you consider it in the national interest. I do not consider being part of the uk union part of scotlands national interest.
60

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 27/08/2008 18:56:42
"Edinburgh is rich in economic assets. The city is a world-renowned tourist destination, one of Europe's foremost financial services centres and is home to a growing cutting-edge life sciences industry."
Whoah??!!! And that happened within the UK? Shome mistake!
61

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

27/08/2008 19:06:36
I'll only believe it when I hear it from the city's Economic leader, Councillor Tom Buchanan. Where is he ?
62

The Tin Man,

27/08/2008 19:06:50
#63 AlanB

I would disagree - I hate examples, but Ireland, Slovakia, and the Balkanettes cetrainly did not become independent for economic reasons - have a look at Ireland's first 60 years, and Balkan countries where the government's income is based on cigarette smuggling.

Your position also implies that Scotland could re-unite with the UK if it was economically favourable. I think it is a once-and-for-all step based on Nationalistic feelings, with economic concerns being entirely superflous.

63

The Tin Man,

27/08/2008 19:19:04
Nationalism tends to be based on one group of people who believe that they share a similar ethnicity, and that that ethnicicity is sufficienty different from the rest of the country which they inhabit to warrant a seperate State.

I am not sure if States have ever been willingly split-up due to economic reasons.
64

Alan B,

27/08/2008 20:54:17
#The Tin Man

While everyone is motivated by different issues and see things differently for me the economy matters.

I would look at it from what I beleive is in scotland national interest, with the economy being a major part of that. If I thought being a member of the EU was in scotland national interest I would want to be a member. As I do. If I thought being part of the uk union was beneficial to scotland i would support that. Albeit in a reformed devolved manner.

I am not actually ideologically against being part of the uk but would like that to be like the EU so that it is confederal, with sovereignty lying with Scotland via the scottish parliament. However nearly every power I would like shared, I see at a european level. Single market, currency, freedom of movement of people and even global foreign policy and peace keeping. As such i see little benefit of the uk.

I am not saying other countries and different people would not see things differently.

If you look at your example of Ireland. It was not willingly and democratically a member of the uk. However it is a member of the european union.

While the economy is a major factor as i see it, it also comes down to democracy. To ensure scotland is run by scotland, by political parties of its choosing.

There is an issue of when does the economic benefits of the EU become conflicted by over centralisation and then the infringment on sovereignty. And where individual people see that balance.
65

Alan B,

27/08/2008 20:56:23
#The Tin Man

Is Ireland a member of the eu for economic reasons or political.

Is the uk a member of the eu for economic reasons or political.

So from that perspective the economy does matter.

My view is if it were not for the economic benefits of the EC the tories would want to pull out.
66

,

27/08/2008 21:42:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 27/08/2008 22:18:48
Swinney speaks rubbish. Since Salmond came to power, the amount of tourists visiting Scotland has fallen - FACT. He told us he would increase police officers on the street - it ain't happened - FACT. He told us he would scrap the council tax - it ain't happened - FACT. He told us he would scrap student debt - that ain't happening - FACT. He told us he would reduce class sizes - schools are closing and pupils are being moved to other schools - INCREASING class sizes - FACT. He has increased usage of the Forth Road Bridge by scrapping tolls - posters on here told us they spent the first night going to and fro over the bridge - which increases pollution - FACT. Salmond is too obsessed with his perceived battle with the UK government, he has totally forgot about his real job. He is a complete failure - roll on the next election!
68

Robbie 2,

NZ 27/08/2008 22:40:59
71 Gorgie_Tony
Instead of spending so much time in negativity about a minority government who only had their budget passed a few months ago. Why not go positive an try to enumerate all the wonderful things Unionist parties have done for Scotland in the past umpteen years. Why did Scotland (used to be along with Ireland)have the highest immigration rates (per capita) in the Western world.
Scotland has a long way to go and the biggest difficulties will be negativity and the demonization of the Scottish Government by the extremely bias Scottish media and the likes of Gorgie_Tony.
If more would study the positive aspects of national sovereignty then at least they could come up with reasoned arguments instead of adversarial comment just for its own sake.
In economist Schumacher’s famed book, ’Small Is Beautiful’ he observes,
“…if we make a list of all the most prosperous countries in the world, we find most of them are very small [UN figures substantiates this] whereas a list of all the biggest countries in the world show most to be very poor indeed”.
This Gorgie is a FACT.
69

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/08/2008 23:44:48
#68 Alan B: I suppose I have a similar style of thinking and am the ultimate devolutionist: I think each individual should be a sovereign state unto themselves. If they want to join together for a project because they think it in their interest, then that's up to them. If they want out, or don't want to join a particular project, that should be fine too.

That way if a bunch of Nationalist Socialists want to waste their money on something then I agree they should go ahead. They just shouldn't have any claims on my money for it just because I live close by.

After all, if devolution is a good thing, why stop at Scotland? Let's devolve to where each individual has control over their own lives.
70

democracy,

Scottish Borders 28/08/2008 00:05:41
#73 More Bull from the fool!!
71

The Tin Man,

28/08/2008 07:20:17
#69 AlanB

From your examples, you imply that States join-together for economic reasons, not split-up.

I remain to be convinced that States split-up for anything other than ethic reasons. I think that someone basing their opinion on seperation on economic grounds is short-sighted, and a seperation based on such grounds would be setting a precedent.
72

Alasdair,

28/08/2008 09:49:21
#24 Highland Mighty© - you said:
"18. Aaah, you said "THIS year". Got you.

Okay, what about the previous TWENTY years when the money was flowing the other way?"

Twenty years?
Really?

This is 2008, yes?

Twenty years ago would be 1988 then, yes?

So are you therefore saying that in 1997, William Waldegrave, then Chancellor of the Exchequer, DID NOT admit in a written answer to the House, that a net SURPLUS OF £26.7 Billion flowed from Scotland to UK coffers between 1979 and 1995?

Yes/No?
73

Joe,

East Craigs 28/08/2008 12:11:36
"And he told the chamber he could "guarantee" the Scottish Government would fully supADVERTISEMENT port efforts to help Edinburgh go from strength to strength." Totally unbelievable! This from the guy who
'buried' the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link?
74

Alasdair,

28/08/2008 16:34:41
Darklord - you are correct that the calculations were based on certain hypothetical assumptions, but we should remember that the Conservatives also accepted and indeed largely agreed with the assumptions.
Michael Forsyth was listed in the Herald, on 08/04/97 as accepting the figures, as indeed was Labour's Jim Stevens in this very paper on 29/03/97 - he said "I am saying that the SNP are right. The evidence produced from the Scottish Office and the Treasury suggests that they are right."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199697/cmhansrd/vo970113/text/70113w07.htm

 

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